- AJ Jones? - Yes, sir.
 - Episode 294 of keeping up with the Joneses.
 Let's keep up with the Joneses,
 give me a weekly recap.
 - First I wanted to mention something that probably,
 people might know if they know us really well.
 - I'm gonna stop you right here.
 - Yes.
 - There's a strange amount of power emanating from you.
 - Yes.
 - Does this have something to do with that power?
 - Maybe.
 - Okay.
 - So normally you pull together the topics
 and what we're gonna talk about and all of that.
 And I just show up and look pretty essentially.
 Well, you do more than that.
 You're the cohost of the show.
 Yes, but today, yes, I have all the power because
 I know nothing.
 I don't know what we're talking about.
 I don't know what our topic is.
 And that's part of the brilliance of my topic.
 Great.
 Because I'm going to pull on your natural brilliance.
 And hopefully it works.
 Otherwise it'll just be like the world's shortest podcast
 and we'll be like, well, don't do that again.
 I'm excited.
 It could go that way too, I don't know.
 I'm excited or terrified.
 Yes, not sure which.
 So, but to begin with, we have the weekly catch up.
 - How many are weekly catch up?
 - Well, I need to look at my phone
 'cause and I can't see it really without my glasses on.
 - But you have your glasses right there.
 - I know, but I mean, if I hold it for enough away.
 Oh, yes, so--
 - You can't remember what we did this week?
 - No, can you?
 - No, no, no.
 - See, I had to look back in the calendar
 and when I--
 - That's what I do every single week.
 - Right, when I looked back in the calendar,
 I was like, oh, he did lots of fun stuff this week.
 But when I was sitting there trying to think of what we did.
 And that's where I am right now.
 I can't think of what we did.
 Tell me some fun stuff we did this week.
 - I went to the art crawl.
 (laughing)
 - Try that again.
 (laughing)
 - I went to the art crawl.
 - You did go to an art crawl.
 - Yeah.
 - Explain to people what an art crawl is.
 - So downtown Franklin.
 - Yeah.
 - I guess whatever stores want to participate,
 they choose to participate.
 And they host different local artists who bring their stuff
 and put it up in different places.
 And so had a number of friends that were showing art.
 - Does each artist only show their work in one store?
 - Yes.
 So like Sarah Parsons was at Onyx.
 And so she had some gorgeous pieces of--
 - Of course she did, she's phenomenal.
 - Of course she did, yes.
 And they usually have some kind of snack
 and some kind of alcoholic beverage
 that's also like free as part of the crawling scenario.
 Maybe that's where the word,
 maybe they expect you to be crawling by the end.
 - Well in the UK you do a pub crawl,
 which is where you have a drink each pub
 and you do a tour of all the pubs in town.
 So that's where I'm familiar with a pub crawl,
 but an art crawl is probably a play on that.
 - Okay, all right, well so that's what you do.
 And then you walk to the next place where that's open.
 So Isaac was showing his art,
 and then Lori, who has been teaching me
 poor painting, was showing her art.
 And then we just, like there's a whole bunch of other people.
 So, you know, we just walked around and had a great time
 and looked at all the different artists.
 - Am I right and thinking about the weather
 was horrendous that night?
 - It wasn't horrendous.
 It was, it had been horrendous during the day.
 - Yes, that's right.
 - Really high winds, school got canceled,
 trees were down, all that kind of stuff.
 So there wasn't a huge amount of people at the art crawl
 apparently was like way low.
 - Because of the weather.
 - Right, which makes me sad for the artists,
 but it was great for me not because I don't love crowds.
 Yeah, I got all the snacks, not cool.
 So, you know, it was great for me in terms of it
 just being a little bit more low key.
 Then on Saturday, you didn't do anything, this is me again.
 - Yeah, I'm trying to remember.
 I went to go paint with Lori.
 We had so much fun, we just basically.
 - So you're Friday and Saturday,
 we're both artistry to the max.
 - Yes.
 one Friday consumption to Saturday creation.
 - Creation and in the midst of our creation,
 we tried doing a swipe, which was new to both of us.
 And then all I could think of driving home
 was all the different ways I wanted to try and do a swipe
 when I got home.
 So basically I came home fed you and the kids
 and then came down in the basement and did some more.
 - For the uninitiated, what is a swipe?
 - It is, oh, it's gonna be hard for me to explain.
 - I'm pretty sure it includes a swiping motion.
 - It does.
 So it's obviously on canvas.
 And you lay a base color and then you lay a bunch
 of other colors kind of in different orders.
 And then you use like a big kind of spatula thing
 and you put cell activator on it.
 And you swipe the cell activator
 through all the different colors.
 And it makes this almost like webbing, lacing and cells
 and stuff pop out of the canvas.
 So it's really cool.
 And again, you can't control it that well.
 So that's part of the fun of it.
 - Have you done a piece?
 - Yes.
 - Okay.
 Well then I will feature that piece in the thumbnail art
 for this part of the podcast.
 - Okay.
 - You're on a roll.
 What else did we do this week?
 - Oh, that's a good question.
 Hang on, I have to look at my phone again.
 How sad is that?
 Even though I wrote the list,
 we bought two house things this week.
 One of them.
 - I'm only aware of one of them.
 - No, you're very aware of both of them.
 - Well we're both of them.
 - Yeah.
 - Yeah, one was a major disappointment.
 - We bought a new shower head for the master bath.
 We've only needed it for seven years.
 - We haven't needed it for seven years.
 That's been completely fine.
 - The only reason you think we don't need it
 is you don't have much hair.
 I mean-- - How dare you?
 - You have lots of very fine, short hair.
 - Yes.
 - I have lots of hair. - I have a catalog.
 - I mean, I just have a ton of hair.
 And so-- - Which a lot of people
 wouldn't know. - Yeah.
 - 'Cause it doesn't look like you have a lot of hair.
 - No, it's fine.
 - Very thick though.
 - But I have tons of hair.
 So getting shampoo and conditioner out of my hair,
 you don't have to think about that.
 I couldn't get it out of my hair with that shower head
 without spending like way too much time.
 - Here's my problem with that shower head.
 - Yes.
 - Obviously we did a lot of research.
 - The previous shower head or the one that you bought?
 - The one that I bought.
 - Okay, yeah.
 - So did a lot of research?
 - Yes.
 - First stop, thewirecutter.com
 - Yes.
 - Look at their shower heads,
 picked their upgrade to shower heads 
 'cause it had a feature that you wanted.
 Go to Amazon.com, no problem.
 It was something like $200, $220, $240, something like that,
 which I don't mind paying $200 or $40 for something good,
 but then we unpacked it and it was plastic.
 - Certainly it feels plastic, yeah.
 - I mean, it's definitely plastic.
 Our old shower head was metal.
 - Right.
 - It's made by the same company.
 I'm thinking for $240, I wanna feel some heft
 when I'm holding it.
 got a big shower head and then like a magnetic clip on smaller
 shower head. You can take down and spray. Yeah. And that's how
 I'm getting shampoo out of my hair is with that smaller shower.
 I'm glad it's working for you. But I wanted to go back to the Amazon
 listening to see if we got shipped something we didn't order.
 Because Mo and my cell a metal version of that. It just feels
 horrible. It does. It does feel really light. Yeah. Yeah. So
 that's the that's the purchase I'm not happy with. Okay. But you
 like it? Well, I got the shampoo out of my hair in in in much
 - Are you claiming that for the last seven years,
 you haven't made any of them?
 - I often don't.
 Like often underneath, because I have so much hair.
 - Yeah.
 - Right, so it feels gross, but I try and get it out,
 but I often can't get all of it out.
 - All right, well I'm glad it's doing your needs.
 - I'm fine for you to find another one that works.
 If you do do that, I would like it to be a higher pressure
 than the one that you just got.
 - I can't tell you about the higher pressure.
 Because the pressure that's delivered out of the faucet
 is the pressure that is there.
 - That's not completely true.
 - Oh, tell me how physics works.
 - Well, I'm just saying they sell high pressure things.
 There's got to be a difference.
 - All right, okay.
 - Yeah.
 - Well, you find me one of those and we'll try out.
 - I tried, I had a whole bunch of in our Amazon.
 You're like, I'm not buying any of those.
 I'm gonna buy this other one that I found
 and turns out it's plastic.
 So take that wire cutter.
 - Oh, I'm out of the wire cutter didn't, anyway.
 Let's let's let that go.
 But we also purchased a lawnmower.
 That's right.
 And I'd like to say that to set the record straight,
 you who's just like, you know, you purchase like a pressure
 washer and never use it.
 We got a lawnmower and within 24 hours have used it.
 Yes.
 No, it was a long road.
 Those 24 hours was a long train of ours.
 And you still haven't used a pressure washer just to be clear.
 I would imagine that most listener viewers of our show
 would know that I'm not exactly what you would call handy mechanical outdoorsy.
 Yeah.
 Yeah, it's just not my skill.
 Like I've got lots of skills.
 They don't fall on that domain.
 No, they don't.
 So for example, I don't know anything about landscaping or lawnmowering.
 You know, I'm at breakfast with my friend and he's saying that, you know,
 his first job was lawnmowering.
 He's talking to me all about like, you know, how and his satisfaction.
 Is that what they call it?
 Lawn mowering.
 I don't know.
 OK.
 - You're at work. - Okay.
 I have another friend who has a ride along,
 lawnmower, actually, he's got a tractor,
 and he's got like tons of mowing.
 He says this is his happy place.
 He'll spend two hours, he'll just put some headphones on,
 go out, I can't imagine anything I would want to do less
 than mow a lawn. - Okay.
 - And so for the last 14 years,
 we've paid somebody to mow a lawn, which has been great.
 But now that we're unemployed,
 it didn't seem like good stewardship
 to spend that money every single week.
 - Yes.
 - So we went to the water cutter again,
 found their best pick for a lawnmower,
 and did a little bit more research.
 - Electric lawnmower, so that we're doing
 some sort of environmental scenarios.
 - Yeah, that's the reason.
 That's the reason.
 What did you do?
 You came to my office the other day and we were like,
 what are you doing?
 And I had a spreadsheet opening.
 - I was like, babe, which one do you want to be hiccup
 from Lowe's?
 I'm like going out to meet somebody for coffee
 and then I'm gonna go to Lowe's.
 And so I was like, hey, just,
 you wanna just show me which one?
 and you're like, "Well, I'm making a decision matrix."
 And I was like, "Yeah, of course you are.
 All right, just let me know.
 We're trying to get--
 No, I listed them all out because this particular brand makes
 like nine different versions of this hard to tell what the difference
 between them all is.
 And so I listed them all out and then I picked one according to our needs.
 And you read all the reviews.
 I don't know.
 Anyway, we ordered it.
 It was available for pickup.
 You very kindly picked it up.
 And then when we got home, I found that our next door neighbor was out mowing,
 which was great because I know nothing.
 And so Wes came over.
 - Wes is our standby, like he knows how to do
 all the things. - Wes is a one-stop shop.
 Yeah, for all the things I am ignoring about.
 So he has a similar-- - All the man things.
 - Yep, saying more, he has same company
 and so you know, it should be put together.
 And so I was all gung-ho to use it
 until I walked out to our backyard,
 which I haven't been outside in our backyard for months.
 Oh, that's not fair.
 Every time I go out with it's at night
 when we have a firefight. - Sure.
 - But that's not across our grass.
 - And I realize our yard is there's trees
 that have fallen down.
 I mean, when I say trees, they're like five foot,
 six foot tall trees.
 - Yeah, yeah, but they're not in good condition yet.
 - All of the trees are the neighborhood trees.
 We had that big storm have snapped their limbs
 and their branches and their twigs all over.
 I'm like, it's like a jungle.
 I won't even get my lawnmower over.
 - Right.
 - And then all the leaves,
 we had a harsh frost that killed all the leaves.
 I literally can't believe I'm talking about this.
 I feel like the oldest, most boring person ever.
 - People are like, "This is what I'm tuned for
 "to hear about your yard."
 (laughs)
 - Anyway, I had to do a lot of cleanup.
 So I had clean up six bags of lawn,
 not lawn clippings, leaves, debris, twigs.
 I've got, I've put them over there.
 I've got tons of kindling.
 - Well, that's very exciting.
 - Tons of kindling.
 Anyway, that was yesterday.
 This morning, I thought, "You know what?
 "I've got some energy.
 "I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna mow."
 And do you know what I learned?
 - We're a whole bunch of muscles in your body,
 where you had no idea that they existed.
 - Oh, shit, you're holding it.
 - God, I'm glad I'm gonna see our chiropractor.
 - I feel like that sums up yesterday.
 - Babe, did you have that muscle right here?
 Do you wanna know how I know you have a muscle?
 It really hurts.
 Babe, did you know that there's a muscle over here?
 Do you wanna know how I know that you have the muscle?
 It really hurts.
 Hey, babe!
 - Should we talk about your support
 of when we did landscaping?
 We went out, the two of us, to do it.
 It was in 15 minutes, they just were like,
 "I've had a good one tonight."
 - Addison, absolutely.
 I used the loppers on all of those bushes across the front
 and collected all this.
 I was out there for like an hour
 and then I started getting 20 minutes.
 No?
 An hour.
 Let's generously call it an hour.
 And then I started getting a really bad headache.
 So you came inside and lay down for the next year?
 Yeah, I did.
 While I persevered through.
 It's true.
 Which is why I had discovered muscles in my body
 that didn't know existed.
 And they were really sore.
 I know, I heard all about that.
 (laughing)
 Well, this morning I went out
 and did my inaugural cut.
 I've never modal on before.
 That's not strictly true.
 I've never modal on here.
 I haven't modal on in the last 15 years.
 That's safe to say.
 - Well, that's exciting isn't it.
 - And well, the problem was it has seven height settings
 which one to put on.
 So I texted three of my most knowledgeable friends.
 - I love you so much.
 - And then averaged out their answers.
 'Cause they're a little different answers.
 - You averaged out their answer.
 - Okay, so you said three, you said four, you said seven.
 - Lots of people just said,
 well, without seeing what your grass is at
 or knowing anything about your more,
 I can't give you a proper answer.
 And, you know, Wes said, I do it three,
 but I wasn't sure if that's the number three or three inches.
 Bill said between three and four inches
 is the height you want your grass.
 So then I had to go out and measure it.
 And then I, it was a big ask-
 - Okay.
 - But our lawn is moved.
 - Okay, well done.
 - Yeah.
 - We also have a bunch of bushes
 that we don't know if they're ever gonna recover.
 'Cause we, a couple of weeks ago.
 - Well, the good news is not just us.
 - No, no.
 - It's everybody in our neighborhood.
 - It's everybody.
 - Yeah, all Franklin.
 had that kind of flash ice storm scenario that happened and all of a sudden everything's covered in ice.
 When everything melted basically every leaf fell off of most of our bushes and they look like they're all dead.
 You know what I want and I'm sure this exists but again comes back to my ignorance about anything not computer related.
 Is I have a leaf blower.
 Yeah, but I want a leaf sucker like a vacuum cleaner for your garden that sucks up the leaves and mulches them and then spits them into a bag that must exist right.
 I I don't know but you could text west or bill or man.
 That's what I do anything else this week.
 I didn't see anything else in our calendar.
 I think that's I mean everything else is we should probably do not adoption update.
 Yes, nothing has happened.
 Nothing of note is happening.
 That's what it feels like.
 But a lot of stuff happens.
 Yeah, I mean, we've seen situations.
 Well, a quick recap is where we're at is we are eligible to adopt.
 All of our paperwork is in, it's all been renewed, our background.
 Our background checks have been done, our fingerprints.
 You know, we're waiting on what's called being matched,
 which is where the adoption agency says,
 "Hey, there's a birth mom or there's an adoption placement opportunity."
 The match is what you're looking at.
 Would you like to be considered?
 We put our names in and then the mom picks us and that's how it happened.
 Right.
 And so we've had a bunch of opportunities the last couple of weeks,
 or the last couple of weeks that have come our way,
 but unfortunately we're not eligible to apply.
 Yeah, many of them we can't.
 Yeah.
 So you have, oh, there's an adoption situation.
 less than if you'd like to apply, but the birth mom has requested that it's a family with no other children or infertile parents.
 Yeah.
 Or you have to live in this particular state.
 Yes, or doesn't apply to us.
 You know, you have to either be African American or have already adopted an African American child.
 Right.
 You know, that's.
 There's some stipulations that we didn't qualify for.
 So we've seen quite a few situations just none that we could say, yes, put our name in for that.
 And then there have been a handful of ones that where we have put our name in for and we haven't been picked.
 Yes.
 So we're still just in the waiting game, trust in God, his timing.
 Yes.
 Well, let's pivot away from our weekly catch up.
 Yes.
 And tell me quite sincerely, what is our main topic?
 Are you nervous?
 I'm not nervous.
 I'm excited.
 You shouldn't be nervous.
 I realized as I was pondering, I did a lot of pondering and I, because I was thinking about how a lot of what we do on the podcast is teach a little bit of
 of something. And when you teach things, often it's like topical.
 But my favorite kind of teaching is just taking a passage of the Bible and kind
 of ripping it apart and just seeing what's there, not ripping it apart, but you
 know what I mean? Like just just like going first by verse.
 I like going first by verse. And so as I was praying about it, that's what I
 felt like the Lord was like, well, you're doing it. What, how do you like to do?
 Sure.
 So I thought we would go through one of the most well-known passages,
 or that many certainly even really new believers, but that is really well-known.
 You want to guess which passage we're going to do?
 Book of Revelation about the horror of Babylon.
 No.
 No.
 Dragon.
 John 3 16.
 No, but that's good.
 Okay, well, I've lost interest in this game.
 Okay, sorry.
 Let me guess.
 Some 23.
 Let me guess.
 Lots of passages in the scripture.
 Some 23.
 Okay.
 Some 23.
 So I thought we would go through Psalm 23 with the kind of mindset of if this than that.
 I did wonder why you had your Bible with you.
 Yeah.
 So meaning like, again, often we just skim through particularly passages that we know
 really well and we just sort of, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want
 any of these.
 You know, and he just sort of go, yeah, yeah, you know, but actually there's so much
 much truth in there.
 And if this is true, if this little segment is true,
 then what difference does that make to how we live today?
 So I thought we could do that.
 - This sounds like a great idea.
 The one caveat as a teacher, this is my nightmare.
 - I know.
 - Because I like to be prepared.
 And no matter what I say, I'm always like,
 "I wonder what else I could have mined.
 "I'm happy to shoot from the hip."
 - Okay.
 - "I'm completely happy to shoot from the hip."
 - Let's shoot from the hip.
 - Next week, we'll do it again,
 but this time I'll come on to the tiffa.
 - We'll see what that one's like.
 I guess I just thought like, you know,
 we've done 293 episodes, and mostly it's topical,
 and we're both people who love the word,
 and probably the majority of people listening
 to our podcast love the word, you know,
 and so to just have some simple like
 digging through something to ponder.
 - That was my thought.
 - What I love about this, more than anything,
 is you've got all this passion to do it.
 - Okay.
 - So I'm happy this week to look pretty.
 - Well, I do need you to jump in though with,
 'cause a couple of them I'm like,
 "Huh, there's always things that hit you
 "and things that don't,
 "but then different things would hit you,
 "then it hit me."
 Well, I won't hit you.
 - Okay, take it away.
 - So I'm trying to be.
 - So let me just open up this bad boy here.
 So I, in all of--
 - Analog, how quaint.
 Oh my gosh.
 And like in all of my notes and whenever I speak, I love using this Bible because I always
 go back and forth between the message and the NASB.
 And I love like how they present things differently.
 But I thought if we have this here, then we can both see it.
 Well, I like neither the NASB or the message.
 Well, so I'll pull out my phone and pull up.
 Oh, digital.
 Oh, quaint.
 What are you going to use?
 What is it?
 What's your preferred right now?
 You were raised on the NASB.
 - Raised, well I didn't get saved till way late, but yes.
 - But once you got saved, like all your Bible reading
 was in the NASB, so all your memory verses are in the NASB.
 - All of them.
 - For me it was the NIV.
 - Right.
 - But then a number of years ago, maybe five, 10 years ago,
 I started reading, I probably still study the Bible
 with like five different versions of it.
 But when I read for pleasure,
 I would read the New Living Translation.
 It was just like a fresh.
 - Yeah.
 - My problem with the message is it would so,
 I don't mind the message, I'm teasing.
 I'm not one of those people who's precious
 about which version of the Bible you read them.
 I'm really not, I don't have a strong dog in the fight.
 I'm more messing with you.
 But when I first read the message, I was so confused
 because I was like, this is not how I've ever read
 this particular passage.
 And large passage of scripture I would have memorized.
 And so I'm like, oh great, Isaiah 61, I'm gonna,
 wait what now?
 Currently I'm reading the ESV,
 which I've never read before.
 But I'm reading through the Bible in the ESV
 and I'm really enjoying it.
 - And I just got an NIV for the first time ever last summer
 because we've been reading the NIV with the kids.
 - Yeah, how are you finding the NIV?
 - I still don't love the NIV.
 Yeah.
 - Let me tell you a little bit about what am I looking for?
 Psalms.
 - Psalms 23.
 - Psalms 23.
 - So again, I was thinking this is a fun one to start with
 because most believers,
 this would be a fairly familiar Psalm.
 It's short.
 It's to the point.
 So shall I start at first one?
 - No, let's start at verse 13.
 And then go forward. - That was my back.
 That won't be confusing at all.
 - Psalm 23, take it away.
 - Yes, so the Lord is my shepherd.
 - Having opened Psalm 23,
 - Yes.
 - I realized this only six verses.
 So my joke about let's start at verse 13
 from our back.
 (laughing)
 This is one of the reasons I need to be prepared.
 So my jokes would be like,
 - I was wondering what was happening there,
 but it's okay, it's all right.
 - Start at verse one then.
 No, no, no, no.
 If you're using your phone,
 then I'm gonna use my iPad.
 - If you're gonna use your iPad,
 I'm gonna use my iMac.
 (laughing)
 - Well, if you're gonna use your iMac now,
 here, let me just close this bad boy over here.
 - We'll give it to me.
 - You're gonna put it.
 - It's a good, heavy Bible,
 something that you could beat someone with.
 - You're gonna use your iPad.
 - Yes.
 - Let me help you with my Swiss Army knife.
 - Ooh, what's that?
 - It raises an up view.
 - Can I move it over here where I can see it?
 - You can move it wherever you'd like.
 So this is off the cuff Bible study of Psalm 23 is presented by an iPhone and an iPad.
 There you go.
 All right.
 So why don't you read the first verse?
 Well, I'm reading a completely different version.
 Is that a problem?
 I don't imagine it's that different.
 The Lord is my shepherd.
 So far it's the same.
 In the message, the Lord is my clogged answer.
 Then make any sense.
 No.
 All right.
 No.
 The NIV.
 I lack nothing.
 My version, the Lord is my shepherd I shall not want.
 First of all, anytime you see, and I don't know if it's only in the NASB that it does this,
 but I can't imagine it is, is Lord all caps in your version?
 It is.
 So whenever you see that in your version, what it's replacing is the word Yahweh.
 I have to take my glasses off because I can't see.
 You're right.
 Yahweh.
 Yahweh.
 The word Yahweh in reference to God, like it's a name for God, but it implies both knowledge and personal intimacy to be able to use the word Yahweh,
 like that you know who He is and that you have relationship with who He is, which is why you know He is Yahweh.
 - Wow.
 - Isn't that cool?
 - Yeah.
 - So it implies covenant relationship,
 just using that particular word.
 And they were really, the Jewish people,
 the Israelites are very careful about the use of Yahweh
 and even writing Yahweh.
 So it's like a, it's a very important reference point
 because of how intimate a term it is.
 - Okay.
 - The Lord, this intimate God that I'm in personal
 covenant relationship with is my shepherd.
 I also looked up stuff about shepherds.
 - I bet you did.
 - Of course, right?
 Shepherd's job was to rule over their sheep
 and their main focus was on care.
 And like so care and concern.
 So this intimate God who's the creator of the universe,
 who you're in covenant relationship with is concerned for you
 and is working around your care.
 - Which is why we lack nothing.
 - So you shall not want, right?
 So want, I looked up that word as well,
 whatever the original word was for want.
 And whatever the original Hebrew word is,
 'cause I don't speak Hebrew,
 but it means lack, obviously, to have nothing or to recede.
 So we shall not recede, we shall not lack
 for anything that we need.
 We will not end in a place where we don't have what we need.
 And I was just thinking like, just that, just that one verse,
 if we actually knew this intimate, wonderful, powerful God,
 as I get all like teary-eyed,
 who is in covenant relationship with us.
 He is shepherding us, he is concerned for us,
 and he is saying, you will not want,
 you will not live and want.
 How would we live differently today?
 - How would we live differently?
 - Well, I think we'd probably worry less.
 Like I think we spend so much time,
 I mean, we as human beings, worrying.
 And I think we've talked about it before.
 Often we equate like worry with value.
 Like if I'm not worried about it,
 then I probably don't care or whatever.
 Where actually scripture is really clear about not worrying.
 So if the Lord is saying, "Hey, my job is your care
 and concern and you will not want,"
 then I think worry is very counterproductive.
 - I think about what we did yesterday.
 I think we went for a walk Tuesday morning.
 I was having a minor existential crisis.
 - Yes.
 - And so we went out for a walk.
 - Yeah.
 - Gotta get that optic flow going.
 - Mm-hmm.
 - So go for a walk and I'm laying out here like,
 okay, here's my mini existential crisis.
 Here's why I'm thinking that.
 here's some of the stuff I've been pondering.
 Do you have any perspective
 when you were very kind to just let me process?
 And then we came home, correct me if I'm wrong,
 we came home and we've been reading declarations together.
 We've got declarations for 2023, we sit down,
 we read them aloud.
 And I was fascinated to see that all of my existential crisis
 was in stark conflict with our declarations.
 - Yeah, the things that Lord has said.
 - The things that Lord has said,
 everything that I am worried about
 is answered in the declarations that he gave us
 at the start of the year.
 And if it actually started my day with my declarations,
 I probably wouldn't have even arrived
 at my existential crisis.
 - Probably.
 - And so the two of us just making these declarations together,
 man, you could just feel faith arising.
 And I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
 So when you say like, how might we live differently?
 I think if we had that awareness of the Lord
 and his nature and his kindness and his goodness,
 like right here, that would be our preoccupying thought
 rather than the things that we are lacking
 or the things that we are worried that we need
 or the things that we don't think God might care about.
 - Yeah, I agree.
 I like it in the message that says,
 "God my shepherd, I don't need a thing."
 So they've kind of already done the math for you
 and turned it into the positive as opposed to,
 "I shall not want it's like, I don't need a thing.
 I'm good."
 So I do like the way they've done it with that verse.
 Again, I love, I get what you said about the message,
 like sometimes you don't like the way.
 - I do love the message.
 I'm being somewhat flippant, but I do appreciate the message.
 I have it open on my Bible whenever I'm reading.
 - I think what I like about reading two versions
 that are so incredibly different is often,
 when I, for example, read something I'm very familiar with
 in the NAS and I read it in the message and I go,
 "Wait, that's not right."
 Then I have to look back at the NAS and think,
 "Why did they put it that way?
 and what did I miss in the NAS?
 You know, so it makes me actually process
 and think about it a little bit more.
 - Verse two, he makes me lie down in green pastures.
 He leads me beside quiet waters.
 - The previous verse has this emphasis on relationship,
 on God's care and concern for us,
 that he's not gonna leave us in a place of need, right?
 or lack, and then this verse calls us essentially to rest.
 When we know who he is, i.e., he is this intimate covenant God
 and he is our shepherd who is taking care of us
 and making sure that we're safe and covering our needs,
 then once we actually know those things are true,
 the next thing that we're encouraged to do
 is to move towards rest.
 which makes me think if we don't know the first two things
 or the first several things are true,
 it's really hard to rest, isn't it?
 - Very hard to step and arrest
 if you don't know you're cared for.
 - Right, 'cause then you stay in striving,
 'cause you're the one that has to take care of you.
 Yes.
 - Look at me demonstrating how much I care
 about how much I'm worrying.
 - Right, and you're fighting off the lions and the bears
 and you're doing all the things
 because you don't have a shepherd, right?
 But when you have a shepherd
 and he's taking care of all your wants,
 then we can move, move into rest.
 And I would say for me,
 I've only really been trying to practice rest
 for the last couple of years before that.
 That wasn't really a priority for me,
 but I had spent years getting to know the one
 that should allow me to rest.
 - I also think it's interesting when you look at the language
 of verse one, the parable or the picture that David's using
 is a relationship between a shepherd and a sheep.
 And what a sheep love,
 well, they love green pastures.
 And presumably they love water.
 I know nothing about sheep.
 And I really shouldn't be commenting on this.
 But I'm imagining sheep would love wide open,
 safe green pastures and water.
 - Sure.
 - And so this is where this good shepherd leads him to.
 - That's really good.
 - Like I remember we were teaching on blessing.
 And I think in the week that I'd been teaching
 my friend Josh Parsons was giving this really amazing guitar.
 And obviously he was thrilled because Josh is a guitarist that makes sense. The Lord has never given me a guitar
 And I feel no sadness about that because I don't want a guitar, but the Lord has given me so many
 Apple products. Yeah, like so many Apple products
 Because that is my
 Quiet waters and that's my green pastures and that's sorry to move ahead. That's what refreshes my soul
 Right and so the Lord is so good at
 ministering to the needs of a sheep according to the sheep's desire.
 Well, and he knows the individual needs of the sheep.
 He knows which sheep are his.
 Like if you think about an actual shepherd, even shepherds that would bring their flocks
 together to watch together, they would know which ones are theirs to separate them back
 out again.
 I also think there's a really interesting emphasis here on he makes me lie down in green
 pastures.
 Tell me about that.
 I keep thinking like, how often God actually has to make us
 do something that would be good for us.
 Do you know what I mean?
 Like, he makes me.
 Why?
 Because you're bad at it, because you're not trying to,
 you know what I mean?
 'Cause you're not trying to rest,
 'cause you're not realizing that you actually need this thing.
 And so you are gonna have an app.
 It makes me think about when you have little tiny kids
 and they hit that age of about two.
 And they're like, I don't wanna have an app.
 I don't wanna have an app.
 And you as a parent know, if they don't have a nap,
 it's a nuclear war.
 It's a nightmare.
 It's a nightmare and they need it
 and they don't think they need it, but they need it.
 And so as a parent, you're like, I'm so sorry,
 you're gonna have a nap.
 - Go sleep, go sleep, go sleep.
 - So you make them have a nap because that's what they need.
 So I just wanna encourage you, like if you're listening
 or watching and you're like, oh, that sounds good,
 I'd love to, but I can't.
 Maybe you can, maybe it's more, hey, Holy Spirit,
 Would you help me figure out how to put rest in my life?"
 And I was also thinking it says he leads me beside quiet waters.
 And I wish I had made note of the article, but you may have some sort of other information
 about this.
 But there is something that's actually being near water or being able to see water, hear
 actually physically does something to human beings that
 - Yeah, I forgot about that.
 - That causes basically peace, it helps to regulate.
 So I just thought it was funny that the Lord both knows
 how he makes us and then he keeps trying to lead us
 towards the things that we need that he knows
 will help us, right?
 And we're gonna get to this, but shepherds lead their sheep
 with the staff.
 You know, they sort of shove them in the right direction.
 And so again, I often think when I'm hearing this same message
 or the same information over and over again,
 it's sort of God trying to shove you in the right direction
 of like, hey, I made you
 and I actually know what's gonna bring you life
 and what's best for you.
 And so I'm gonna make you rest
 and I'm gonna lead you to quiet waters.
 - I can't make you drink though.
 - Right.
 - Yeah.
 - You want me to read verse three?
 'Cause verse three is a tale on verse two
 and we'll read verse two and three.
 - All right, I mean, I think you should do
 what you need to do.
 - He makes me lie down in green pastures.
 He leads me beside quiet waters.
 He refreshes my soul.
 He guides me along the right paths for his namesake.
 - Lovely, isn't it?
 - Very lovely.
 - He makes me lie down.
 He leads me beside quiet waters
 and he restores my soul.
 So again, it feels like you're looking at stepping stones
 of getting to a place that we all wanna go.
 - Right. - Right?
 Maybe some humans are great at this being their normal format.
 I don't think it comes naturally to us
 to not wanna fix it ourselves.
 - No, absolutely not.
 It is interesting that all of that is for his namesake.
 - Yes. - Yes.
 - So he does all this and we benefit,
 but he does it for his namesake, which I love.
 There's something beautiful about that.
 Maybe it's just my reformed background.
 (both laughing)
 The glory of God is super important.
 Can I read verse four?
 - Well, my other thought was it says,
 he guides me in the paths of righteousness for his namesake.
 So again, you have the guiding coming after the resting,
 the restoring, the trusting.
 Okay, and now he's guiding, you know,
 in the paths of righteousness, like in right standing.
 So I think if we're looking for God, what do you have for us?
 What do you want for us?
 It seems like your precursor is still, I'm sorry to say, rest.
 Yes, no escaping from rest.
 Yes.
 How about verse four?
 How about verse four?
 Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil for you are with me.
 You're Rod and your staff, they come for me.
 - I looked up a little bit about that, of course.
 So shepherds, we think about shepherds crooks or rods.
 And again, as I said earlier,
 they'll use those to direct or to defend.
 They probably leaned on them a little bit too,
 while they're just standing there in a field, watching sheep.
 - I would. - I would too.
 I might even carve like little things after them.
 - After blowing my field this morning, I need something.
 But they were also rods were individual to the shepherd.
 So often people would be able to identify
 whose rod that was.
 Like, oh, that's Joseph's rod or that.
 I was gonna say Bob, but there's probably no Bob that was.
 - Too many Hebrews from the name Bob.
 (laughs)
 - So they were specific to the shepherd.
 It just makes me wonder like, oh, I wonder if
 the sheep would recognize it.
 I mean, we don't know that
 'cause I've never been inside the mind of a sheep.
 But they certainly knew who their shepherd was,
 which is interesting.
 I also think it's interesting that it's during this dark season
 where the Lord takes a more hands-on approach.
 - Yeah, that is interesting.
 - We've gone from rest and stillness and whatever,
 but in this valley, this dark place,
 the Lord is not leaving you.
 - No. - He is active.
 and his rod and his staff are actually bringing comfort.
 So the discipline of the Lord and the direction of the Lord
 is it should bring comfort.
 It's not for shame.
 It's not to belittle us or anything like that.
 It is to protect, warn against danger,
 direct in the right direction.
 And so in darker seasons,
 if what we're hearing or the voice that we're hearing
 condemnation or its harsh, then that's not him directing us.
 The Lord, we will hear him in darker seasons
 because he, again, he is concerned for us
 and he will direct us away from danger.
 And I would say probably back towards trust
 and peace and restoration.
 - It is interesting though,
 because you don't often assume a rod
 on a staff with comfort.
 You don't often connect discipline
 or direction with comfort.
 You know, often it's comforts like, oh, they're there.
 Yeah.
 But it's important to recognize that actually the direction
 of the Lord, the discipline of the Lord,
 is an expression of comfort and love.
 I mean, if you think about, I mean,
 not that you don't care about other people's kids,
 but the amount of direction and care
 and sort of not helicopter momming,
 but you know, whatever that you do over your own kids
 because they're yours to care for
 as compared to other people's kids,
 You just said this vision.
 All the people's kids come over.
 You care about what our kids run into the street.
 Play with the knives.
 Run into the street.
 Care my children, though.
 Come to me.
 No, I don't so much mean that I just mean like he is so individual to us.
 Again, he's numbered the hairs on your head.
 He knows you so well.
 And he doesn't ever leave us even in the in this valley of darkness.
 He's even more active with us.
 I wonder what it would look like if we responded to that activity and as opposed to making it difficult.
 I think sometimes when we're in the valley, we're, we're not listening as well as we could be.
 I wonder what it would look like if we went, okay, God, here I am in the valley.
 I'm looking for you right here.
 Cause I know that you're with me.
 because scripture says you're gonna be here to comfort me, to guide me, and to correct me.
 Lord, what do I need to know about right now? What do I need to know about today, this season,
 this thing that I feel stuck in? Where's the wisdom? How do you want to direct me out of this,
 or through this, or whatever? I just think with all these verses, if we were to turn it into,
 I know you're doing this because scripture says you're actively with me in this valley.
 Okay, God, instead of fighting you or hoping for the best, how do you want to direct me?
 Yeah, or even instead of demanding that you comfort me in the way I want to be comforted.
 Yeah.
 Which is just Netflix and chocolate.
 Right.
 I'll actually listen to your kind rebuke.
 Yeah.
 The Lord almost never says, you know what you need right now?
 Netflix and chocolate.
 Get behind me saying.
 Though he has said to me before, you need a nap.
 I've also said that to you before as well.
 - That's true, yeah.
 Well, sometimes the wisdom will come through your spouse.
 - Verse five, "You prepare a table before me
 in the presence of my enemies.
 You anoint my head with oil and my cup overflows.
 I added the end there for the NIV purists."
 - So I love a bunch about this visual.
 So he anoints your head with oil
 and your cup overflows.
 So when I think about anointing your head with oil,
 I think about like Samuel, like I think this was a mark of you've been chosen.
 And so you are anointed with oil.
 Like the king.
 I'm thinking about who wrote this.
 Yeah, yeah.
 David, who was literally anointed.
 Right.
 He understands the significance.
 Like you have been marked as his, you know, you've been marked as destined basically.
 And it's that in the midst of, hey, you're having food with your enemies.
 But I have a thought.
 Tell me your thought, baby.
 So I've always looked at this person and I thought,
 oh yeah, so you're sitting at a table
 and you're eating with your enemies.
 But it doesn't actually say that you're eating with them.
 - No.
 - Right?
 So it says that he prepares a table before you
 in the presence of your enemies.
 - Right.
 - And then he marks you as chosen.
 I realized I'm like, oh, I thought it was like, okay,
 like even when you're having to eat dinner with your enemies,
 not that I have like a whole bunch of enemies,
 then I'll, you know, I'll know his presence,
 but it's so much cooler than that.
 It's like actually, your enemies are gonna stand there
 and watch as you are blessed and you are chosen.
 - And fed.
 - And fed.
 - And nurtured.
 - And they're not eating with you.
 - Nope.
 - They're watching what the Lord is doing on your behalf.
 - Oh, it's a beautiful season.
 - And this is on the other side of you've come through a valley.
 So you have this wonderful God
 who you're in covenant relationship with, right?
 And he cares about you and he has concern for you
 and he leads you out of care and concern
 and you trusting him into learning to rest
 and being restored.
 And then out of rest and being restored,
 you can even walk through these dark valleys
 and be able to turn to him and look for comfort
 and guidance and know that you're not alone.
 And on the other side of all of that, here you are.
 And there's this marvelous spread of food
 and you are being anointed for what's next
 and your enemies are watching.
 - Right.
 - Right?
 - Yeah.
 - So it's kind of like a,
 it's like marking this wonderful journey.
 - It really is.
 I love what Elsa says is that it's very realistic.
 It doesn't mean that a life with God is devoid of enemies
 or hard things or low points.
 - No.
 - It means-- - There's gonna be valleys.
 - Even those those things are gonna be there.
 There's abundance because your cup is overflowing.
 there's favor because your heads are mounted with oil
 and your enemies can't do a thing about it.
 And like, you taught me this phrase
 that there's no crowbars needed in the kingdom of God,
 that no man can rob your destiny from you.
 - No.
 - And I love that.
 - Yeah, I feel like what I love about this psalm
 is it's really dripping with the goodness of God,
 but it's super practical.
 But again, we don't usually go through and pull it apart.
 We just sort of memorize it.
 - Re-determine, as much as ever.
 - Yeah, and it's beautiful, but it's also a path.
 It's directional, isn't it?
 - Keep for life.
 - Yeah, and it's one of those things where,
 I realized when I read the story of Joseph
 many, many, many years ago,
 I started asking the Lord, like,
 where am I in the story?
 - Wow.
 - Especially when I've been like really,
 you know, all this season feels so hard,
 like, father in the pit, am I in Potiphar's house?
 Like, where am I?
 You're in prison.
 - In this story, you know,
 and I felt like the Lord would often speak to me
 like in terms of a timeline through Joseph's story,
 but I feel like that works with Psalm 23 as well.
 Like where am I in the story?
 And am I stuck anywhere in the story?
 Like maybe am I in the valley
 'cause I don't wanna take correction or direction?
 Am I still like just walking in circles in the valley
 'cause I'm not looking for what you wanna say here?
 Or am I still fighting rest and I haven't even made it to the valley?
 Like, I mean, where am I in the story?
 And how do I partner with you to get to the last verse?
 Right.
 But I love what you're saying.
 Yeah, it doesn't know where are we.
 Um, promised as Christians that we won't have trials.
 Uh, the opposite.
 Quite Jesus.
 Jesus is up front in this one.
 You will have trouble.
 Right.
 You're going to have trouble.
 Take heart.
 I don't know.
 Congratulations.
 Right.
 there's gonna be valleys.
 You'll probably have enemies.
 And you can be confident that God will meet you
 right where you're at.
 That you're not by yourself.
 - Which brings us to verse six.
 - It does.
 - Surely goodness and mercy will follow me
 all the days of my life.
 And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
 - Yeah, I love it.
 My transition says,
 "Surely goodness and loving kindness will follow me
 all the days of my life."
 and I will dwell in the house of Yahweh forever.
 So again, back to, it starts the very first verse,
 Yahweh, this covenant-keeping, intimate God,
 and finishes again, Yahweh,
 this covenant-keeping, intimate God, which I love.
 - Yeah, I love the bookends.
 - It's same, so cool, right?
 So yours says mercy, yours says goodness and mercy.
 - Nice says goodness and love.
 Okay.
 Your says goodness and love will follow me all the days
 in my life.
 - Yeah.
 - Okay.
 But what are the actual words
 if you click on them in accordance?
 - So good, you mean in Hebrew?
 - Yeah.
 - This is tiny print.
 - Sorry.
 - In goodness, I can't read Hebrew.
 - Me neither, but the...
 - Pope?
 - Okay.
 - Goodness, it means good pleasing desirable.
 You can refer to a quality as well as moral goodness.
 - Okay.
 love has said, as the Hebrew word, which I probably
 butchered that pronunciation, unfailing love,
 loyal love, devotion, kindness,
 often based on a prior relationship,
 especially a covenant relationship.
 - So here we are again, back to Yahweh,
 covenant relationship.
 Who He is is love, who He is is kind, we know this.
 If you just even think about Exodus 34,
 when He puts Moses in the cleft of the rock
 And he says, the Lord, the Lord.
 - Gracious and compassionate.
 - Gracious and compassionate.
 Here is this incredible God who is,
 he is love who we're in covenant relationship with.
 And it's basically saying, hey, guess what?
 Goodness, kindness, these things that he is
 because you're in relationship with,
 they're gonna follow you everywhere.
 You can't get away from him.
 It's gonna follow you everywhere you go.
 You don't ever have to think,
 I'm going into this room by myself, you're not.
 You're going in, in covenant relationship with Yahweh.
 - I once had a vision of the Lord
 asking me to look behind me.
 - Okay.
 - And behind me was goodness in mercy,
 or goodness in love.
 And the Lord's like, that's your destiny.
 For the rest of your life,
 wherever you go, those two follow you.
 And I love that even in death,
 I'm gonna dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
 It's literally a win-win.
 The rest of our life with Jesus,
 no matter how hard, how many valleys.
 Goodness and mercy is gonna accompany.
 It's gonna follow you.
 You're never gonna be without those two things.
 And even in death, you're gonna dwell
 in the house of the Lord forever.
 I mean, how awesome is that?
 - It's amazing.
 But, and I think also, I think because it's a promise,
 you know, it's a statement, hey, goodness and loving kindness,
 they're following you.
 I think it's something that has believers.
 We also choose not to let go of in the moments
 when a different voice wants to say, "Hey."
 - Or remind you of a different thing, yeah.
 - Yeah, you're on your own, "Nope, I'm not goodness,
 "loving kindness, they're following me."
 So they're coming into this room with me,
 they're coming into this meeting with me,
 they're coming into this situation with me.
 And I am in relationship with Yahweh, this covenant God.
 And then there's the final promise of,
 and you're gonna dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
 You know? - Love it.
 - So it's even whatever this life ends up representing,
 there's the end prize, you know, the end goal as well.
 And so I think, again, I've always loved Psalm 23,
 but it's so much deeper than I think we catch sometimes
 because we're so familiar.
 - You've always been somebody who loves to go first
 by verse through passages.
 - Oh, I love it.
 I love teaching first by verse through.
 They were some of my favorite weeks to teach
 when we did the school. - I remember, yeah.
 You just love mining it.
 - I do, yeah, I love mining.
 I love going through all the different versions
 and the commentaries and all that kind of stuff, yeah.
 So that was me.
 That was what I wanted to talk about,
 but you have the listeners question.
 - I'm looking up as we talk.
 - All right.
 - I am a big fan of you taking the lead on the podcast.
 - So cool.
 - I have a list of questions.
 - Yes.
 - This is in response to last week's episode,
 which was all about angels.
 And we told some stories about having angelic visitations
 and seeing angels.
 This is a question from Alex.
 And he says, "I have a list of questions for you
 "and AJ regarding your podcast this week.
 "How do you know that what you see is an angel
 "and not something else like demonic
 "or an inverted comma as a ghost?
 "Between the ages of me being four to six,
 "I was awoken in the night and a female
 was standing in my doorway singing.
 And I remember being fearful
 because of someone being in my room.
 I cried out and my mother came in the room
 and it disappeared.
 At the time we were living close to Pendle Hill
 at the place in England.
 And if you've heard of it,
 it's known for witchcraft and their emblem is a witch
 and so their history is witch trials
 and all that sort of lots of activity like that.
 So the question is how do you know
 that what you're seeing is actually an angel?
 And bear in mind that scripture says that the devil
 can masquerade as an angel of light.
 So what you're seeing in angel,
 how do you make sure that it's a good one?
 - As you're reading the question,
 I was thinking about that time that we were in Germany.
 And...
 - Oh wow.
 - Yeah.
 And we were having...
 - Sorry, let me clarify.
 - We love Germany.
 - And we love Germany.
 - I love Germany.
 I miss, that's one of the countries I miss traveling
 to the most.
 - I should probably get some context for why we shuttered.
 Well, I was gonna tell the story.
 - Tell the story about it.
 - So, we were...
 - Can I just put a trigger warning first?
 If there's kids listening to this,
 you might wanna pause this
 and not have kids listen to the story
 'cause it's pretty horrible.
 And if you're a tall, sensitive to the supernatural,
 or if you've had trouble with fear,
 you might not wanna listen to the story.
 It ends really well, but it was gross.
 - Well, yeah, so...
 - Take it away with that introduction.
 So we were doing a series of meetings at a church,
 kinda near Dresden, if I remember correctly.
 And we were staying in an old church building
 that used to be like a state run kind of church.
 And it was right across from this massive old state church.
 - And the cemetery.
 - And the cemetery.
 And in the middle of the night,
 we like saw spirits come in the room.
 I saw--
 - Well, the way I remember it is.
 - Okay.
 - We were in a little house.
 Literally, you look out the window.
 And I know this 'cause they don't have drapes.
 - Yeah.
 - Europe.
 - No.
 - Many people in Europe, what is the deal
 with you not having drapes in your house?
 - Yes.
 - That's more than one country we've been in.
 - Four screens on your windows.
 - Yeah, it's weird.
 - Yeah.
 - So I remember we're getting ready for bed
 and we're overlooking a graveyard,
 which I'm not, I am not a superstitious person.
 - Yeah, I didn't care about that.
 - I'm not a scared person.
 I remember going into that church.
 Not the church we're administering there,
 but the church we're staying next.
 - Yes.
 - And as soon as we walked into church,
 in the natural, there was a huge Masonic eye.
 - Yes.
 - Big statue of a Masonic eye over the pulpit.
 - Pulled it.
 - Or altar or whatever, yeah.
 - I saw what I can only describe as a slumbering spirit.
 It looked like a giant dog, maybe 10 to 15 feet long.
 And as we walked in and just kind of lifted his head,
 looked at us and then went back to slumbering.
 And I just thought, well, that's weird.
 - And I didn't see anything.
 I just felt incredible darkness.
 like we were getting this tour of like,
 look at this beautiful old church and I was like,
 and I'm out of here.
 Like I have to think.
 - So we're sleeping right next to it,
 which again doesn't bother us.
 Like we're not superstitious people.
 But we go about that night
 and no sooner did I turned off the lights,
 I can feel, again, how do you know it was a witch's hand,
 but I can feel a witch's hand with her nails
 scraping down my chest.
 And I'm like, la, la, la, la, la,
 like I don't wanna freak you out if like,
 If you're just getting ready for sleep
 when you're super peaceful, I don't wanna freak you out.
 I can just rebuke it on my own.
 But the amount of demonic activity in our bedroom
 was easily the strongest I've ever felt ever.
 - Yes, yeah, for sure.
 - So I'm thinking, just say nothing,
 so don't wake up AJ and just that maybe,
 you know, rebuke it and pray in tongues.
 And what I don't realize is you're experiencing what?
 - Well, I heard to,
 I was assuming they were witches or something,
 but two things walk up the stairs and come in.
 I watched two beings come in the door.
 And I was like, well, that's different.
 - So I think I turned to you and was like,
 I'm just gonna time out here.
 And this is what I'm feeling.
 You're like, yeah, this is what I saw.
 So we were like, all right, let's turn on our lights.
 We prayed, we put on some worship music.
 Graham Cook taught us this.
 He said that whenever I'm in a new place,
 I seal up the windows and I pray
 and I turn on worship music
 and I let the demons scream, 'cause they're in torture.
 We put on worship music.
 And I think we emailed our friends Isabelle,
 Ivan and Isabelle.
 I just said, "Hey Ivan Isabelle, this thing just happened to us."
 Like that has never happened to us in our ministry.
 Like any suggestions, obviously we've prayed,
 obviously we've rebuked it,
 obviously we're playing some worship music.
 And Isabelle had some brilliant advice,
 which was like, "Oh yeah, that happens sometimes.
 "Just do this."
 And everything we were doing anyway.
 Anyway, within about 15 minutes,
 we felt peace in the room.
 - We went back to the verify.
 - And we were never bothered by it again.
 - Yeah.
 - The reason we're telling that story I assume?
 - To me, it feels different.
 - Yeah, it's not about what you see.
 - It's the residue, it's, yeah, it's the residue afterwards.
 - Yeah, there's three great tests you can use
 for all supernatural experiences.
 And this works whether it's a vision,
 whether it's an open vision, whether it's an angel,
 whether it's a word of knowledge,
 whether it's a word of prophecy,
 'cause we're always told to weigh these things.
 - Sure. - So I was told to test them.
 And the Bible is the sieve that all revelation goes through.
 But the three great tests is what do you feel
 as you're experiencing, as you're given the word?
 Are you filled with hope?
 Are you filled with joy?
 Because it says the wisdom of heaven, first of all,
 is peaceable and loving and kind.
 Do you feel the fruit of the spirit,
 a company, the word or the experience?
 Or do you feel fear, dread, condemnation?
 - Yeah, and it's easy.
 - I think it's important to differentiate
 between fear and awe as well.
 'Cause I would say I felt the fear of the Lord
 when I saw that massive angel,
 like as in awe and reverence, but not terror.
 - Yes. - Yeah.
 - Whereas in Germany, our...
 - It was dark.
 - It felt dark, yeah.
 It was literally like, wow.
 - So that's one thing.
 I wanna feel like, number two is, weigh the content
 because Paul said even if an angel should appear
 and preach a gospel,
 no one we preach, let them be eternally condemned. So even if it's a legit angel, if the message
 they're speaking is contrary to Scripture, let them be damned. Okay.
 There's a nice strong language. Yeah, yeah. So what is the content of the message? Right.
 Is it scriptural? Right. If it is in disregarded, no matter how spectacular it is, by the way,
 yes, no matter how amazing it is, no matter what happens, get rid of it. Yeah.
 And then lastly, test the fruit. What is the fruit of your experience during counter your
 experience. Does it lead to life? Does it lead to more of Jesus is that God
 honoring if it is great? It was sent from the kingdom of heaven. If it wasn't,
 just toss it out.
 Toss it out. I think the overwhelming thing I want people to take away with is that we
 don't need to be scared because he that's in us is greater than he that's in the world.
 I remember my mom telling this story. I remember when I was in school, I would have been 11 or 12.
 I would have been in like first year or second year. What's an 11 year old or 12 year old,
 of 5th grade middle school. Sure. Yeah. And I remember a bunch of my classmates were all
 playing with Ouija boards and we're getting freaked out and they were telling me freaky
 stories that freaked me out. I remember telling my mom and I remember my mom saying, "Yeah,
 you want to stay away from Ouija boards?" And you know, my mom was telling me about the demonic,
 but she also brought peace to me going, "Oh, you never need to be scared of the devil
 because A, he's a defeated enemy, but B, he that's in you, Jesus that's in you, is stronger."
 And that's comforting. I think we answered a question a couple of weeks ago about night terrors,
 didn't we? Yes. Yeah. You know, Alex, you're asking that question that, you know, when you were
 little, it's interesting that you saw that. I wonder what you did with that experience. I wonder how
 your parents handled that. But also, as we talked about before that, like often night terrors come
 against people with a visionary outlook. I would wonder what you did with that experience, Alex.
 and maybe the Lord wants to redeem that experience as a little boy that you had that scared you.
 - Like in terms of if you were scared and then you just shut down, I don't want to see anything
 anymore. - Well, might the Lord do to open that up so that you can see who he is or what he's doing.
 There you go. There's our three-step test for is it God or is it? - Right.
 - We were telling our kids, I don't know why this popped in my head, our kids were asking,
 our kids always ask us, tell us some funny stories. - Yes.
 - We were telling the story about the time of your mother sends you to a spoon bending camp.
 Yes, my mother very into the new age and took me to new age camp for a week.
 And one of the things they were trying to have us do was bend spoons with our minds.
 I do remember though, not to be funny, but I remember that while we were thinking about
 the spoons and they weren't very thick spoons, we were also like rubbing the spoons, you
 know, like as we're thinking about the spoons.
 And I remember even as a kid thinking, is this so that we heat up the metal so that we can bend it with our fingers?
 Because I was very cynical.
 But your mother, even though she was in the new age, and even though you weren't a believer and didn't know Jesus at this point,
 she recognized the prophetic gift on your life.
 Because wouldn't she take you places because you could sense whether things had a good vibe or not?
 Yeah, well, and I would see things.
 Oh, you did? You saw from an early age?
 Yeah, but I would like, I were, these are not great stories.
 But when my parents were getting a divorce--
 - Well, come to the creepy part of our podcast.
 - Well, my parents were getting a divorce
 and my mom was looking for a house to move into
 'cause we sort of did like move somewhere in term
 and then mom was trying to find a house.
 She would take me to the house to see what it felt like to me.
 And then sometimes I would see things.
 So I remember this one house we went into
 and it was a pretty cool house
 like in terms of location
 but also just the setup of the house was pretty cool.
 But then I walked into the master bathroom and I had this like flash picture of a dead
 body.
 I won't go into details.
 But it was very like graphic what I saw and I walked out and I said, we can't move here.
 We can't move here.
 And so the real estate agent is like looking at me, you know, like what's going on.
 And so I said, this is what I just saw.
 And the real estate agent like looks at my mom.
 And then apparently after I left, said, no, she's right.
 The wife died in the bathroom.
 I mean, that's what happened.
 That's what happened.
 So yeah, I mean, I would have things like that.
 This is before I knew Jesus.
 Before I knew Jesus.
 Yeah.
 But it all freaked me out.
 Of course it did.
 So--
 But then Jesus redeems that.
 Yeah.
 I remember-- I forget-- I think it was John Paul Jackson,
 who taught me this.
 But you know that verse in Jeremiah,
 where I says to Jeremiah before I--
 before the foundation of the world of college is a prophet.
 And he said, you know, the gifts and calling of God
 are without repentance, which means they're there.
 You don't, we've talked about this before,
 the whole Christmas tree example.
 Like your gifts are there, you don't work for them
 and they operate.
 And they operate regardless of whether you're following
 Jesus or not.
 So his point was, let's take a gift
 that we can all acknowledge.
 Let's take a musical gift that the Lord may give you
 a musical gift from before you were ever born.
 He decreed like this gift of music on you.
 And obviously you become a follower of Christ.
 I don't know, maybe you use that for worship,
 whether that's private worship to him
 or whether that's you're gonna be your gift
 and your calling and God uses you publicly
 as a worship leader.
 Let's say that you rebel and you don't wanna follow Jesus.
 Well, he's not gonna take his gift away from you.
 So you might use that gift in a worldly way.
 And he said it's the same with a supernatural.
 So you've got people who are called as prophets,
 called as seers, that if they don't follow Jesus,
 the gift still works.
 He said, "The gift is the satellite dish.
 The revelation is whatever you tune the satellite dish to."
 - Oh, wow, okay.
 - I thought that was really interesting.
 I think we should pray for our listeners
 just to break off anything that might be creepy.
 Lord Jesus, I thank you that you are great
 and you're big and you're strong
 and you are, scripture says that heat that's in us
 is great than heat that's in the world.
 And Lord, just anything that would,
 from the stories we just told,
 that would like to attach or defile our listeners,
 and put the cross of Jesus between them
 and stories of the demonic.
 I just take the sword of the Lord
 and I sever any ties to visual thinkers, Lord,
 people who are listening who are visual thinkers
 or if those stories reminded our listeners of events
 from their past or their childhood
 that is gonna cause them disturbance
 and I plead the blood of Jesus over it
 and ask for peace to come in Jesus name.
 - Yeah, Father, we also ask that for any listeners
 who maybe as children did have experiences
 that then cause them to shut down their gifting
 'cause of fear or just not understanding what it was.
 And that you would restore that giftedness,
 anything that they've shut down
 as they're ready to start receiving revelation again.
 Amen.
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